FCF's lipsmacking profit projection on 2010 Duhard Milon
£11,553.03 net profit in four years!!
I was recently contacted by TG, a putative investor with FCF Investments. This is the trading name of FCF Associates Ltd. The company was founded 10.102011 and has two directors: 38-year-old Matthew Simon Guy and 34-year-old Steven David Carruthers. The company's share capital is £2 – split equally between the two directors. Their trading address is a serviced office in Knutsford. FCF produces ludicrously optimistic projections based on over-priced wines with a 15% service charge!
FCF Investments sent TG an example 'of the returns you can achieve' enclosing the above chart 'showing the predicted returns for the Duhart Milon Rothschild 2010 over a 4 year investment period. This is calculated based on a 25% increase in value per year (the returns typically experienced over the last 10 years on comparable vintages.'
This really is flying pig territory especially as FCF Investments sell their wines at a considerably higher price than can be found elsewhere and charge a 15% service charge (10% on purchase, 5% on sale) – presumably for their expertise in overcharging.
FCF Investments propose to charge TG £1089 for a case of 2010 Duhart Milon (£990 per case plus 10% service charge). However, a quick shop around on wine-searcher.com shows that a case (12 bottles) of the 2010 Duhart Millon can be bought for £600 a case from both Ditton Wine Traders and Seckford Wines – an immediate saving of £489 a case. As FCF Investments told TG he should buy 10 cases this is a saving of £4890!
FCF's projections have no basis in reality as Bordeaux prices have fallen considerably since 2011. For a look at the real world of fine wine prices and their movments see http://www.bordeauxindex.com/market.php as well as the Liv-ex indices.
FCF's advice on tax liabilities is also wrong. Bordeaux First Growths bought when young from good vintages are unlikely to qualify as 'wasting assets'. FCF claims that wine for inheritance tax 'is valued at acquisition cost, not current value'. This is incorrect it is assessed at 'current value'. of course given FCF Investments' high price policy this may be an unexpected advantage!
If the fine wine market was really buoyant and a sure-fire source of profits, it is unlikely that we would have seen the collapse of several wine funds over the past year including Nobles Crus, Vintage Wine Fund and, most recently, The Bordeaux Fund. The latter reported by Wealth Manager (City Wire) to have lost 58% since its launch in 2008.
Fortunately TG declined FCF Investments kind offer of over-priced wine investments. I suggest you do the same.
Jim, i have noticed that Duhart milon Rothschild 2010 is quoted as low as £600. However Berry Brothers and Rudd are selling it now for £1468.00. Also the average price on wine searcher is over £1000.00.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to say who i am yet. I have clear evidence from one of my investors that Vin x sent him an invoice for a certain wine at double the max price on wine searcher. I told him this he canceled and then invested with me at the right price.
So my point, why dont you list berry brothers for overcharging (check price on their website) and why don't you list Vinx for cold calling.
I personally, one day soon and maybe even with your help would like to set up a real wine association, non profit, we will fund start up costs.
No cold calling clients. Investors get their own account in warehouse first, not a joint account. No deposit taken. Then when they have their account number only then do they pay and we transfer the wine into their account immediately. Plus more rules which im sure with your experience you could really help and give me great advise.
im not prepared to debate this in front of everyone in my
name. please respond here with your thoughts ans then i will provide you with my name and number and maybe we can make a difference.
thank you in advane
Anon. As I'm sure you are aware there are crucial differences between selling something retail and selling that same product as an investment, especially in the case of FCF where the 'predictions of profit' are based on over-priced wine. As long as something is selling retail you can charge what you like. Whether someone is willing to pay the price asked is another matter. In this instance if I wanted a case of the 2010 Duhart Milon I would look to buy from Ditton at £600 a case rather than pay Berry's price of £1224. The average price show on wine-searcher today is £828 a case.
DeleteHi Jim... I have similar dealings with FCF investments. They offered mecases of Duhart Milion Rothschild 2011 at £990 per case, plus a 10& charge with additional r 5& later on I checked the price of this wine elsewhere and iy's available at £600 a case.
ReplyDeleteIs there a reputable Wine Investment company out there I can invest in?
Matthew Guy is a director of NBH Media, a website company based in Liverpool, together with Steven Carruthers who both used to try and sell advertising in a non-existent publication promoting carbon offsetting, also featured in an article on the daily mirror site mentioning them both in person:
ReplyDeletehttp://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations/2012/12/meet-the-new-investment-scam-o.html
Thanks Anon. I see that Denver Trading AG mentioned in the Mirror article was put into provisional liquidation by the High Court. http://insolvency.presscentre.com/Press-Releases/Rare-earth-metals-companies-placed-into-provisional-liquidation-6984c.aspx
ReplyDelete'Three companies involved in the supply of rare earth elements to the public were placed into provisional liquidation on 20 December 2013, following an investigation by the Insolvency Service.
Denver Trading AG, a Swiss registered company, Denver Trading Ltd, a Seychelles registered company (collectively ‘Denver Trading’), and Imperial Escrow Ltd, who held money from customers on behalf of Denver Trading, all took part in the rare metal business.'
Also Galissard Ltd is in process of being struck off for non-compliance – no accounts or returns filed. Return overdue since 15.8.2013.
ReplyDeleteJim,
ReplyDeleteI have cash invested with FCF. The wine is held (supposedly) in London City Bonds in a bonded warehouse on which I pay insurance. Have I lost my money?
Anon. You need to check with LCB to see if they have your wine.
ReplyDeleteI have checked with LCB and our wine is there, FCF are not at their premises in Liverpool and the girl answering the phone didn't know where they'd gone to
ReplyDeleteEdited comment:
ReplyDeleteFCF is based in Liverpool. I have wine portfolio with them from past 3 years. I am trying to sell them via FCF but I keep getting the emails from them to hold it for 12 more months.
Since Aug 2014 I didn't get any communication from them regarding selling mu portfolio.
I have the wines in Bonded Warehouse but the price I paid for a case was 3 times higher then normal seliing price on BBX.
Before buying I mentioned that your selling price is way to high compared to BBX. The response I got from FCF (Steven Langley, the broker) was than BBX rates are stale rates and they don't change the price of the wine on the index that often. I was a bit surprised but I went ahead with the deal by paying 10% commission on top.
They will coerce you to buy the wine and would say that if you want to sell it then you can back to FCF. This is absolutely not true. They are cheaters.
Be aware of FCF and Steven Langley-Goodman.
I am filing a lawsuit against FCF very soon. if any one feels they have been dubbed then please reply here and I will get in touch with you to bring down these scamsters.
ReplyDeleteHi I also invested £15000 with FCF and Steven Langley-Goodman.
DeleteHow can we help?
I also invested 10k with FCF back in 2012. Have lost all faith in them as their communication is beyond shocking and their projections unbelievably inflated. Just not sure what action to take now...?
DeleteI have been fobbed off about selling my wine for well over a year now and signed a sale agreement where I even lost a little bit of my initial investment, such is my trust with this company
Hi are you still looking into this?
DeleteI am also a victim.
If you look at the latest filed accounts to 31st March 2015 you will see that the company appears to be doing little business. Profit and loss: £13097 with debts within a year £3603. In waht way are you a victim please?
DeleteAnon, Please get in touch with details like amount invested, Invoices provided, any verbal commitment and last response received from FCF on fcfinvestors@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteI have not been receiving any response from them since past 6 months and I am sure that there many more investors in same situation as us.
Thanks,
We have not gone anywhere to the people who can not get hold of us
ReplyDeletemy number is 07767 373 939
10 Rumford place Liverpool l3 9dg
08451213188
Please contact me asap so we can sort all this out, whatever the problem is with each person im sure it can be fixed. We have started to generate new sales in wine again so this year we can go back to normal trading.
Although the market dropped last year, this year is showing good signs of a good year for wine investments.
I hope you all realise that this forum is exactly what caused all of your problems ( fact)
Everything that jim budd has claimed we do have an honest answer for.
We have made mistake but we are genuine people.
For example all the investor who bought rare earth, had there money paid back when we didn't have to as we were only introducing the investor to rare earth.
Although the wine was sold to you at a premium, we still have the plan place to sell the wine you have online abroad at higher prices than the uk as soon as we can.
Either way please contact me so we can solve the problems we have.
hope your all well and I look forward to seeing you soon.
Steve
JUST TO ADD TO PREVIOUS MESSAGE
ReplyDeleteJim budd is right when it comes to the projection we sent out and our prices. We should not have sent projections of what the wine might go up by either way, and certainly not that high. It was sent by one of our brokers who know longer works for FCF only a few times, however it will never happen again.
Also in future our prices will be the same price you will find at Farr Vintners the wholesaler.
Steve Carruthers
To Steve L and Steve C,
ReplyDeleteSo basically we all (Investors) were right with respect to your baseless and speculative future return projections of the wines.
We have heard enough on your plans of selling wines at higher profits etc etc. I need to see some action now...
Dear anonymous....
ReplyDeletecould you please call Steve Langley on 07767 373 939 so we can try sell your wine as soon as possible.
Also we have spoken to almost all our investors who understand the full situation and are willing to wait for 1 to 2 years for the market to hopefully improve which it looks like is starting to happen now.
This blog is extremely unhelpful to all our investors.
Yes we have made mistakes, we were influenced by the Chinese demand forcing the prices to exorbitant rates and the resulting collapse of the market.
Through reflective practice we have realised what errors we made and as a result we no longer charge any upfront fees and source wines at the lowest possible wholesale prices, resulting in prospective investors getting the best possible deals available. In addition, we only charge investors 15% of the net profit when we sell.
Continuation of the negative blogs will only serve to cause further problems for our current customers, making it extremely difficult to sell their investments.
The negative comments on this forum have made it extremely difficult to gain any new business despite the fact that we have a large number of references available from satisfied clients. Furthermore, eventually it will cause us to cease trading.
Could you therefore please contact us on 07767373939 or 0845 1213188 to discuss how we can rectify the situation which will be beneficial to all concerned, ultimately by removing the content of this blog.
It has never been our intention to cause distress or difficulty to any of our clients but only to provide them with the means to gain a fair return on their investments.
Kind Regards
Steven Langley and Steven Carruthers
Steven Langley and Steven Carruthers
DeleteThank you for your message. I take it from your comments that my post was accurate, so no reason to remove it. if you are going to offer unregulated investments to persuade people to invest their savings in wine, art, carbon credits etc. it behoves companies and directors to do their homework before setting up.
Steven Langley is Steven Goodman and Steven carruthers they are all the same person there are no 'brokers'
DeleteI would like to add that it will not mean that we will cease trading with respect to looking after our existing customers.
ReplyDeleteIt means that we will no longer be able to generate new business.
Steve Carruthers
Hi Jim
ReplyDeleteI’ve invested close to £15,000 in wine with FCF investments.
Although it is barely 3 years since I did, and the current downturn in
the Chinese economy isn't helping, I’m determined to see my
investment through. However, this blog has me extremely worried about
my investment; more the damage it is causing the FCF’s reputation. I
see that FCF investments have also commented and invited you to open
up a dialogue with them but you don’t seem to want to do that. As a
concerned investor, I‘d be grateful if you would talk to them and
post your exchanges on this forum please.
Also, to FCF investments, please could you publish any testimonies of
satisfied clients you have? This forum is utterly devoid of any
positive news about you. I think you need to provide evidence that you
are a genuine outfit with happy customers. Testimonies would need to
be authenticated.
Thanks
on 19 Dec 2014 I commented on this forum. However till now there has not been any movement to selling of wine or testimony from any satisfied customers. I have repeatedly asked FCF to sell my wine portfolios but all I got was assurance and then the trail went cold. The broker is not even interested in communicating anymore.
ReplyDeleteWith no choice I have touched base with http://www.wsta.co.uk/ to take this forward now.
I am another investor who has serious concerns. I am also about to report my case to WSTA. Communication has been woeful and with all of the above concerns it leaves me no choice. I'd like proof that my portfolio is actively being worked on and trying to be sold. I'd also like proof of any previous investors who have had any returns with FCF in a reasonable timeframe.
DeleteWhen FCF blame this blog for their downfall and a previous employer for ludicrously optimistic objections, it raises huge red flags
I too invested £10,000 in Feb 2014 although my Wine is safe with LCB I too have been trying to contact Steve or FCF but to No Avail. Has anybody got anywhere with contacting Steven Langley and Steven Carruthers
ReplyDeleteIt seems like there are many FCF investors who have been taken for a ride with ridiculous return projections with no real evidence on the actual market value of wine. FCF had even ridiculed BBX market value stating that the low prices on their index is stale....
ReplyDeleteI tried calling FCF but no response from them at all....
My name is Jonathan.I feel quite incredulous over some of the vitriolic posts on this forum.Over the
ReplyDeletepast 5 years I have bought & sold a lot of wine through Steven Langley & in this time I have always found him professional, friendly & accessible.to deal with.
In the event of his being unable to answer my phone calls he has ALWAYS come back to me within 24 hrs.
His phone no is : 07557 414504
Hello my name is Paul Ruane.
ReplyDeleteI also feel quit sad that the business is now ruined over this forum. Why could Mr Budd simply have asked FCF to make the changes to be in line with his opinions and then allow them to continue to trade and help FCF sell the existing customers sell their wine.
I have met Steven several times and have spent one week in Germany with helping me go through a difficult time which is a personnel situation to me. He is kind considerate generous and has always helped me. He has sold wine for me over 12 times before this forum appeared.
His telephone number is 08451213188 and his mobile number is 07557414504
As i have built a good relationship with him i do know that this forum has literally put them out of business.
This forum is not legal in the UK which is why it his hosted in Canada.
Also for Mr Budd to act as judge jury and executioner is beyond belief.
Finally I would like to say that I was sold £10,000 pound in Rare Earth Metals as Steven was sold the idea by Denver Trading. When Denver Trading shut down and I lost all my money FCF Investments paid me back in full and lost the money themselves. There are nine other customer that they did the same with.
In short how can you not give them a chance to correct any errors and remove this forum.
Paul Ruane
Very interesting forum indeed. I am one of the unfortunate investor with FCF who bought Bordeaux
ReplyDeleteen-primeur wines at rates much higher than what Farr Viteners and BBX displayed on their website. i even paid 10% commission on top of it. My investment has nearly reduced to 50% of the buying price.
From past 2 years I have asked FCF to sell my wines portfolio even if it is in loss, but to no avail. There has been no communication from Mr. Steven. I tried calling him on the number mentioned, but that number did not belong to Mr. Steven. I am pretty sure I have tried and called multiple times checking the number before every call.
Unfortunately I have to pay LCB storage cost year on year which is adding to my losses.
If FCF has returned their investors their full money then why not in mycase? Why not call their investors and provide assurance that they exists and working towards refunding investors money? Why use this forum to project good light when indeed nothing is happening on the ground?
Kind Regards,
Hello to the last poster.
ReplyDeleteMy number is infact 07557414504
Please call asap.
Gave a call, no answer so left a voicemail for you on 07557414504 Mr. Langley.
ReplyDelete-Ritvik
Till now no answer from Mr. Steven Langley who assured me on the phone on 19 May 2016 after multiple attempts to reach him that he will respond on 23rd May 2016 re selling wines to wholesellers.
ReplyDelete-Ritvik
Dear Ritvik. Have you called the landline or my mobile number 07557414504
ReplyDeleteDo you really need to add to this forum?
Why didnt you just text me or leave a voicemail.
I have been away with ilness.
Im available all day today.
Steve Langley
Excuse me, Steve. You know what information I had requested from you which you can send on the email.
ReplyDeletePlease don't except me to keep calling you on the number you mentioned or leaving voicemail while you are not bothered to respond.
-Ritvik
Steven, can you contact me and show these people that your the opposite of what they are saying.
ReplyDelete07944706155
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletehave been trying to contact Steve Langley regarding sale of my portfolio to no avail seems they are just not contactable or do not respond to messages left on company answer phone. does anyone have some updated contact information for this company
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone have any up to date contact information for Steve Langley as I have been trying to contact the company for some time but they do not answer phone e mail or text messages.
ReplyDeleteweebee , I am trying to contact him myself.
ReplyDeletewith no luck, my number is 07944706155 should he contact you please let him know I would like to speak to him.
Hi all. I have registered a complaint with LCB customer services (about FCF, not LCB) as the way I was sold my wine is akin to the definition of fraud and 'mis-sold goods as an investment' with false promises' Also I am seeking advice through tom@getglaimsadvice.co.uk
ReplyDeleteHis advice is that if anyone here believes they were mis-lead then they should contact him and provide any proof they have. I suggest all those that can back up their comments do the same. I will also be reporting it on http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/report-fraud-about-you
I suggest you all do the same
Hi everyone. I was also sold 10 cases of 2010 Duhart Milon by Steve Langley-Goodman in 2013 and was contacted by him several times after I purchased when he wanted to sell me more wine, and once to flog me real estate! I’m glad I didn't fall for that one.
DeleteI asked FCF to sell my wine last year and they said I should hold off for another year or two …
I’ve tried to contact Steve (whoever he is) and FCF several times in the last few days by email and by phone, leaving messages each time, but no-one has gotten back to me.
I’ve paid LCB £574 for storage charges to date which has further contributed to my losses and the most recent invoice to cover 2017 on Saturday - which was in fact the last straw!
If Steve’s an honest broker then why didn’t he advise his clients of his changes in telephone numbers and keep in touch? Why did he communicate on this forum at all? He has our details … we don’t have his because all his numbers are unobtainable … and why on earth don’t FCF answer their phone?
Sadly Steve well and truly saw me coming so I’ll be following the advice in the post above mine.
Assuming you have access to your wines since you have storage I suggest you go ahead and sell these wines without the need to contact the apparently elusive Steve. On the right hand side of this blog are a list of companies I would considering buying from – or selling to.
ReplyDeleteinfo@fcfinvestments.co.uk & 0845 121 3188.
ReplyDeleteHi Weebee I have been trying to sell my portfolio since past 2 years and I was always been told to hold for 2-3 years. The projection of returns FCF made were ridiculous with really no backup. Also FCF mentioned that BBX rates were stale when I challenged the price of the wine compared to BBX.
ReplyDeleteI think FCF is not bothered of buying back wines from old investors or try re-selling them. Their operating model is to keep rolling wines from one investor to next. It is same as any fradulent ponzi scheme.
FCF ASSOCIATES LIMITED having Company number 07802702
ReplyDeleteis still active company. One can complaint to serious fraud office under https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company. I hope this helps, I have already raised with WSTA, actionfraud and serious fraud office.
Sattva. I suggest your best option may well be to complain to the Companies Investigation Branch: https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company
DeleteThis is the reply I received from Insolvency Department. I suggest everyone should raise a complaint against FCF with this dept for them to initiate investigation.
DeleteThank you for your email of 11 March 2017 concerning FCF Associates Limited.
This letter is to tell you that the Insolvency Service is not intending to investigate this company at this time.
We take all complaints regarding active companies seriously, and routinely consider wider information regarding trading activities in support of our decision making. While the Insolvency Service appreciates your concerns raised about the company, not all complaints received by us will lead to an investigation.
In this case we have decided not to take your complaint further because it appears that your complaint is criminal in nature, and as such you may wish to contact Action Fraud, the national fraud reporting service, either online at http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/report_fraud or by telephone on 0300 123 2040.
The decision not to investigate does not mean that the company may not be investigated in future, nor should it be seen as an endorsement of the company’s operations or business practices. This decision does not stop any others from taking action against the company or the directors.
Yours Sincerely,
For and on behalf of
Suzanne Shields
Intelligence Team| Investigations & Enforcement Services | The Insolvency Service – Delivering Economic Confidence
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/insolvency-service
Follow us on Twitter: @insolvencygovuk
Having never made a complaint like this before, does anybody expect we'll get anything for our trouble? I mean we've all obviously been robbed/cheated by these bastards, but other than do our best to prevent this happening to anybody else in the future, what can complaining about an llc achieve?
ReplyDeleteNot trying to be a smartass it's just a genuine question.
I bought 10 cases of Pontet Canet in 2012 and it's "3-5 year return" is 4 1/2 years in. I now live overseas so not so easy to handle this while i'm abroad. Genuinely unsure what to do with my cases moving forwards.
Hi All,
ReplyDeleteI bought wine and was promised it would be delivered to my account once it was out of the barrel and ready for casing. The wine never materialized despite FCF taking my money. I have tried to contact FCF whom do not answer their phone and have tried to contact Steve Langley who apparently has had "health issues."
He keeps promising he will return me the money or the wine but he hasn't provided me with a phone number or given me any confidence that he will do so. Has anyone got any advice? FCF/Steve have basically taken my money and not given me anything which amounts to theft.
Has anyone had any luck legally or with the Fraud authorities? Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Luke
Two companies ran by the same guy in the same small office
ReplyDelete0151 703 0509
0871 220 6085
Hound them until you get through, only way to get anything back from the is to become a pain and stop them making money elsewhere
Does anyone have any other contact numbers for anyone at FCF Investments? The above numbers are out of service.
ReplyDeleteThanks,
Luke
Luke, Worth checking the website and checking with companies house for the details
DeleteEdited comment: To confirm Steven Langley and Steven Carruthers are indeed the same person. I received confirmation from Steven Carruthers that he was using a pseudonym. He claims it was to show that there were more people working for the company on the company's books. Given that Steve has spoken of Steven Carruthers in the past as being his boss and above has even signed off using both names I suspect he used the name Steven Langley to help him to con investors.
ReplyDeleteHello Jim,
ReplyDeleteDid you manage to speak to Steven, how did you achieve this. I’ve been trying to reach him for several months now
Dirk
Dirk. Thanks for your message. I haven't tried to contact Steven
ReplyDeleteThanks Jim. How could investors retrieve their investments?
ReplyDeleteYou need to find out whether any wine you paid for has been bought and where it is stored and in whose name.
ReplyDeleteYes I over priced wine with idea to sell in China. With good intentions. The real person to blame is Jim Budd who hides away and runs his website from Canada. Hey Jim lets see if you aprove this post?
ReplyDeleteHello Steven,
DeleteWill you please contact me. My name is Derek Scott, I’m one of your investors. My number is on the emails and voicemails I’ve left for you at Embassy Consultants
Jim, even the police and trading standards and the fraud squad told me all I have done, for example. Is buy a car for 5000. and then sell it for 7000. that is not a crime. If you had not put all the bad warnings on internet the investors would have had money back. yes i admit it might take longer and it is a risk, but you likked the business so its all down to you. I would love to no were you live becasue i would be willing to go to jail for a few years for xxxxxxxxx
ReplyDeleteMr Langley: this comment with its threat probably tells your clients all they need to know about your business model.
DeleteSteve Langley: fact: investdrinks.org is hosted in Canada. This post was published here on Google.
ReplyDeleteHow do I contact you about my investment Steve, your email isn’t functioning
ReplyDeleteDerek Scott
Steve Langley/Carruthers maybe wasn't the most upstanding citizen but his intentions were definitely good. I'm sorry to tell you all but I found out a week ago that steve, in the last couple of weeks, passed away from a massive heart attack in a hotel in Laos. He was only 40 years old.....
ReplyDeleteDeception created to get investors off his back. What a con artist.
DeleteIn that case I desperately need some contact details
ReplyDeleteTo the anonymous poster on 6/12-if this is the case can you provide evidence to this effect ? This scumbag has swindled me and many other people out of a large amount of money irrespective of whether his intentions were good or bad.I shall be up in Liverpool shortly & search out Langley's mother to discuss all the money he has defrauded me out of to see if she can help in anyway? If he is dead, what a legacy he has left in his wake !
ReplyDeleteFIRST CAPITAL FINANCIAL LIMITED registration number is Company number 07802702. Raise a complaint against the directors of the company with Companies house. The directors are still active.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.gov.uk/complain-company
ReplyDeleteRip Steve
ReplyDeleteFCF and the directors are still active. Not sure which Steve is resting in peace.
ReplyDelete