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Tuesday, 20 April 2010

Capital Vintners Ltd – 'brokerage service for many years' while dormant?!


'About Us

Capital Vintners has provided personal and private fine wine brokerage service for many years, establishing a porfolio of wines with excellent performance and generating substantial returns and significant value for its client base. The success of these portfolios together with a general lack of easy access to ethical and transparent brokerage services in fine wine has led Capital Vintners to open up its brokerage services to the general public.

Capital Vintners offers a range of brokerage services for your fine wine portfolio, including purchasing, portfolio management, managed cellars, purchase and sales of stocks.

Registered in the UK
Company registration: 05496760'

Company history from UK Companies House
Incorporated: 1.7.2005
Series of accounts for dormant company filed. Latest filed on 22.8.2008 for dormant company taking accounts up to 31.7.08.
First accounts for active company filed on 15.4.2010 for accounts to 31.7.2009 (total exemption small)

Company address:
1 Liverpool Street, London EC2M 7QD
Regus serviced office:  http://www.regus.co.uk/locations/GB/London/LondonLiverpoolStreet.htm

43 comments:

  1. Capita Vintners are offering 2000 Pavie at over £5000 a case

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  2. I had a couple of cases with them, only a few thousand quids worth. They peppered me with hard sell calls to try and extend my portfolio. In the end I got fed up with the fact that the wines they sold me underperformed that I sold up in total. They continued to nuisance call and I had to be well unpleasant to get it to stop.
    Too hard sell. Not best prices. Avoid.

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  3. I first purchased fine wine from Capital Vintners in May 2009. At the time it seemed to good to be true and was very unsure that i had done the right thing. However i am happy to say i have sold a case of wine in september 2010 and the resulting return has exceeded my expectations, and hope this will continue in the future.
    From a satisfied customer

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  4. Satisfied customer – your comment would have more weight if you had included details of what you bought and at what price etc.

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  5. This is the second time they have contacted me over the last two years, I have requested average growth information relating to their products both times and they have sent me general marketing materials showing how good they are, also have requested financial info on their company without success. They are aggressive and apply general pressure techniques to get the sale. I would not invest with this company.

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  6. I'm curious to ask Jim budd something :

    you have a list of companies you would buy from, and a list you wouldn't !!!

    My question is, why is it that no one, no big merchants, no brokerage houses, no one in the industry endorses Jim budd ?????????????????

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  7. Capital Vintners are a pain in the *rse. I found the only way to deflect their constant hard sell cold calls is to remind the caller that he was on commission and that he was wasting HIS time trying to sell to me.

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  8. I am a client of Capital Vintners and I have chosen to never purchase wines from there organisation again as they have been offereing me investment opportunities well over prices on wine-searcher which i have only found recently!
    They offered me:
    1 case of Lafite Rothschild 2000 - £36,000.
    1 case of Mouton Rothschild 1998 - £8,850.
    I would advise any who is offered wines from Capital Vintners to check there prices.

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  9. Client please call the company and explain as these are complete fabricated prices seeing that we are offering Lafite Rothschild 2000 at £23,500 and Mouton Rothschild 1998 at £6,000. I can only imagine that this comment is to damage future business. All our clients that purchased Lafite 2000 paid £12,000 per case in late 2009. I would be interested to know the gentleman who mentioned this. If this is a true story as we have not even had this stock available for sale for over 1 year. This kind of price quoting is taken very seriously and shall be dealt with accordingly, as we advise our clients of price competition sites. So please call the office and let me know as I believe this is a complete fabrication. Yours sincerely MD

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  10. I was cold called by Harvey today; very high pressure but schoolboy sales tactics. Tried to sell me Mouton Rothschild 1998 at £5,500 but then admitted he had only paid £4,900 to another client (but we have to pay the wages so that's all right!). On a wine price comparison site I found the average cost of the wine was £4,500 but many of these prices were for single bottles not investment cases. Harvey wouldn't give me a straight answer about their fee structure just kept on trying to find out who else I was talking so and rubbishing the opposition. I will be avoiding in future.

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  11. I have been to there so called address:
    1 Liverpool Street
    London
    EC2M 7QD
    Nobody has ever seen or heard of Capital Vintners!! Could some one please explain what is going on here ??

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  12. FYI-

    Capital Vintners were previously working out of 1, Liverpool St; however, due to the new Crossrail link, they have had to relocate. No1 Liverpool St is no longer available to ANY company, as of March 2012.

    Capital Vintners are happily relocated at No1, Cornhill. Please see their website for further information: http://capitalvintners.com/contact/

    They are more than happy to meet with clients at Cornhill. Please contact them for an appointment.

    I hope this adequately responds to your query.

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  13. I visited No1 Cornhill today and what a surprise Capital Vintners were not there. I spoke to several people in the building who have never heard of Capital Vintners\!! Does anyone know where this company is really based ??

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  14. Capital Vintners website clearly states that their accounts/admin office is based in London Bridge and that their head office is Cornhill. I have visited both offices and can verify this.

    (As as aside, it's not that surprising that the people you spoke to had not heard of the company, as many of the offices at Cornhill are rented out to companies at daily rates on a temporary basis. When working in the financial services sector, I used to book meeting rooms there to meet with foreign clients).

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  15. I asked the reception staff on friday, and as there are only two people that work on rotation on the front desk, it is impossible for a member of staff not to have known whether any persons were asking for us. I know all the individual members of staff personally that work at Cornhill and I can assure that I would have been notified if anyone was downstairs asking for us.


    However we have been informed by the staff at Cornhill that it has been known that people mistake Lombard Street to Cornhill, so maybe this person was at a completely different building but saying that, it is rather baffling that one would think that the the normal code of practice would be to call us if they were lost or couldn't find us, Or to even make a prior appointment before appearing unannounced.

    Perhaps this customer should call us. As we have not heard from anyone saying that they have visited us recently. I would like to perhaps advise them of where we are again and perhaps provide a map or even use a GPS unit.

    On another note Mr B. We have had some customers confirm to us that they tried to post some good news on this site about Capital Vintners providing a good service to their customers and strangely they have never appeared. Is this because they have not donated any monies to you?? As they are pro Capital Vintners and it appears you are the opposite, but again is this because we haven't sent you money.!!!!

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  16. Other than selling wines over priced has anyone had any futher negative dealings with this company

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  17. I have bought and sold through them a couple of times now. Not much invested as I approached them to sell wine I bought from another company. I have had no immediate problems here. Compared to whom are they more expensive as l did do research when I purchased wine from them and it was an acceptable price. As far as I am aware there advice was OK. I did quite alot of research and came across this site and must say that it seems that the comments on this page are rather slanderous at the company. I am new to this and I think that there are good companies and maybe bad too but I must say my wine is in my account and I'm happy.!! I'm just not pleased with the original company I bought wine from as they have not helped me. I sold through Capital Vintners and bought one case too.
    Please advise me of the flaws to look out for?

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  18. Impossible to comment without details of what you bought and sold and the prices.

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  19. The unscruplious employees of this dreadful company persist in cold calling my elderly mother from their boiler room, trying to get her to pay £4200 for 24 bottles of alleged 2003 fine wine (Pavie), despite her repeatedly telling them that she is defintely not interested. They have now sent her an invoice demanding payment within 7 days and she is now worried.
    I will report Capital Vintners to 'Action Fraud' for this tomorrow. If it's not illegal, it's extremely unethical.

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    Replies
    1. Chris. Please send me the invoice demanding payment – without the personal details – and I'll publish this. As you know under the distance selling regulations the company has no legal basis for this demand.

      Delete
  20. Dear Mr Budd

    I am slightly confused by this allegation as all our records show that only one case transactions are ever sent on these wines.
    Our price for Pavie 2003 is indeed between £1,900 to £2,100 per case dependent on availability and wine searcher shows this wine is on offer for £2,788/case.
    I would also like to point out that our Invoices, when sent to customers are under no obligation to pay unless deposits are paid for the case upon purchase. All our customers are aware of this and are notified when paperwork is sent out. Our invoices do state that payment has to be made within 7 days from the date of the invoice. However under the rule of Law they are in there right to cancel within 14 days and full refunds payable should they be unhappy too. We only send paperwork for transactions that are agreed and happy for the customer to receive and review on the wine offer. We do not run a so called boiler room tactic as this allegation has been made.

    I take full offence to these allegations as we are running a legitimate operation with wines in accounts and clients are happy. If any of my staff have acted in this way I shall take the appropriate action and formerly apologise to the customer in question.
    Yours sincerely
    MD

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    Replies
    1. MD

      The current range for a case of Pavie on wine-searcher is £1700-£2388. I hope Chris will contact your company and that his mother will no longer receive calls attempting to sell wine to her.

      Delete
  21. Dear Mr Budd

    So as price is concerned we are OK again. Maybe I am looking at the pro version as a different top price to you.
    And absolutely no calls would ever be made again as clearly some things here have been overlooked and we would not want business in this manner. If the person could make themselves apparent I would personally apologise and deal with the appropriate member of staff accordingly

    Thank You.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. MD. Prices were taken from the pro version.

      Delete
  22. I received a 23 minute `high pressure` call from Capital Vintners this afternoon. I advised these people 12 months ago that I had no intention of investing in fine wine(s) but still I receive calls from them.
    My polite attempts to decline the fantastic offer of a case of something costing £2750 fell on deaf ears, and he merely talked over me, seemingly without taking a breath.
    I finally terminated the call after 23 minutes, as the salesman clearly had no grasp of the concept of the phrase " No thankyou, I am not interested".
    Any more calls from Capital Vinters will be dealt with accordingly. Pain in the arse !

    ReplyDelete
  23. Dear Mr Budd,
    I have been a Capital Vintners (CV) client for some years and they have got progressively worse throughout our relationship. They used to have some fairly knowledgeable and pleasant brokers who were pushy but not aggressive. However, their high turnover of staff is worrying and my dealings of late have been appalling to say the least.
    The wine I have purchased I now believe to have been grossly overpriced (thanks to www.wine-searcher.com). I have not been interested in buying anymore wine from CV but often receive calls offering me prices way too good to be true for the stock I hold, through the premise of a foreign buyer. The catch is, I can only complete this sale of my stock if I first buy more wine from CV, when I state that I want the cash the foreign buyer suddenly changes his mind or it all goes quite. In the last instance the salesman pleaded with me that 'he's got kids to feed' which I found to be a repulsive, unprofessional, sympathy beg.
    I also used to hold my wines at Octavian in my own account for which I had complete control, fully paid for by CV for 5 years, as per the T&Cs of their contract. I was told last year that CV were changing storage facilities to Locke King Vaults and if I moved my wines there, they promised to honor the T&Cs and continue paying the storage for the remaining years left of the 5 year agreement. They also informed me that my wines would be in private, personal account, exactly the same as the Octavian account. I agreed to move the wines. Once the wines were moved I received a storage bill from CV who were completely going back on their word stating 'they have changed their T&Cs'. Since speaking to Locke King Vaults I have also discovered that if I wish to move my wines, I need AUTHORISATION FROM CV!!!! Firstly, I would never have agreed to move the wines if I was to be responsible for the payments, and secondly I now have to get permission to move my own property!!
    I am thinking of contacting the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) or alternatively taking legal advice, please could you investigate this storage matter for me?
    I would also be interested if there are others in my predicament, as I fear there could be many?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anon. Many thanks for your detailed message. I suggest that you ask for your wines to be moved to your own account. You should also contact James Temple at EHD, who is in charge of the fine wine storage, and explain the situation.

      It may well also be worth contacting the Office of Fair Trading as well as considering making a complaint through Action Fraud, although I would give Capital Vintners Ltd the opportunity to move your wine into a private account first.

      Delete
    2. Further to the email from Anon sent on 20th March 2013 I have also had the same problem with Capital Vintners T had my wine at Octavian but was told it would be better at Locke King and if I didn't move it I would have to pay storage. I agreed to move it but then I received a bill from Capital and I rang them to tell them I was still in my 5 years. OK said the person on the phone. This happened again this year and again I rang them to be told again OK. I then found out I should pay for the storage because they have changed their terms. I am now trying to sell it to another broker but can't until I pay the storage.

      Delete
    3. Anon (27.3.14). I suggest you check out the 'another broker' before trusting them to sell your wine. If you wish you can either post the name here or perhaps better email the company name.

      Delete
  24. Dear Jim,
    I have also had a similar experience with Capital Vintners. I was also persuaded to move my wine to Locke King Vaults after being told that they will only continue to pay for the storage (as stated in their terms and conditions) for 5 years if I agree. Virtually as soon as I moved the wines I also received a bill, strangely it was from Capital Vintners and not Locke King Vaults for the wines storage costs?? I was completely shocked that this company could so blatantly go back on their word and I'm sure this was their motive all along.
    I have done some basic storage company calculations and I think the reason Capital Vintners were so keen for myself and the rest of their clients to swap storage companies, is surely because they are profiting from the storage costs. Why else would they invoice me for the storage costs instead of Locke King Vaults?? It's a complete waste of their time and resources, unless of course, there is something in it for them?? I will be inquiring about who has control over my wines in due course, because the note above is incredibly worrying. My conclusion = a shady, untrustworthy company.

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  25. Anon. Thanks for this. I would certainly want to ensure that my wine was in my own account. Also it is always best to move the wine as little as possible as moving wine from place to place can affect its value.

    A possible reason for the move could be that Octavian declined to do business with Capital anymore.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Capital Vintners (10.4.13): 'Firstly we were not rejected from Octavian as you mentioned in your response and we take offence to that unfounded comment.'

      Thank you for clarifying this.

      Delete
  26. It seems I have more wine knowledge in my little finger than Capital Vintners have between their whole sale's team (and I'm an amateur). Oh, and apparently everything they wish me to buy will go up by 30-40% in a very short space of time! Laughable lack of knowledge, unprofessional conduct, cowboys!

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  27. Dear Mr Budd,

    In response to the posts on your blog evidently by customers or possibly virtual customers who don’t seem to make their queries apparent to our team at Capital Vintners.

    We have noted that the majority of all the allegations on this page are just callous attempts to slow our business down. It is a shame because all it takes is a call to erase these problems that might be on someone’s mind.

    However it’s funny that nobody calls to air their problems. They just post something on here and then we have to fish around looking for the complainer and resolve the matter in this way. It is time consuming and whilst we are always trying to maintain a good level of customer service we cannot control all our relationships to the highest possible standard. We are aware that there is always the odd customer who will complain or be unhappy.

    We are always striving to produce a more transparent way in which we buy and sell wine for both the customer and buyer.

    To answer the points raised our sales staff do not promise sales on deals offered. All wines sold are based on the customer choice of length of hold. Terms and Conditions apply and all our calls are monitored and recorded to protect both parties. We had one instance last year of an aggressive salesman and we took action and fired that member of staff concerned as the customer posted something on here and we found the call on our system and took the appropriate action.

    We market our wines through email campaigns and follow up calls on marketing material sent out. If someone is not interested we simply remove them from our database.

    You will see we have a stock list of wines available to purchase and this alters daily. In regards to Capital Vintners and the Locke King Vaults storage management service we offer, I would like to point out that it has been a wise move under the grand scheme of things of which I shall explain further.

    Firstly we were not rejected from Octavian as you mentioned in your response and we take offence to that unfounded comment.

    We stored over 3000 cases of wine there for over 3.5 years under customers owned names accounts and they would be invoiced privately by Cert Octavian. The customer would then send the invoice to us and we would reimburse them for this charge.

    As you know Jim, customers have to have ownership of their wines in cases of liquidation and possible neglect to company accounts.

    Furthermore as Capital Vintners have such a large number of customers with one or two cases in their accounts, the costs were inevitably spiralling out of control due to the minimum charge and case price per year on a couple of cases of wine. i.e. you would be charged £20.67 x 2 plus the minimum fee of £108 + VAT = £129.60 This would make a grand total of £170.94/ year to store 2 cases of wine.

    Thus making our five years free storage offer, in a larger scale, a very costly experience for the company and in order to maintain a high level of customer care and satisfaction we needed to take action and move the wine safely to a far more cost effective place for our customers. Please also note that as the market had quite a downturn in the last year or so, prices came down which caused customers to hold on to their stock. Thus not being able to sell wine back to us, it would have left us in rather a very tricky state.

    We met with James Temple, Locke-King Vaults Fine Wine Manager, and he provided us with a perfect solution to our situation.

    How it works with Locke King is each customer is assigned his or her own account in their own name and the admin is done through us to give a saving to the whole storage costs which we pass down to the customer. James has confirmed that clients will only receive a preferential storage rate if they can confirm that they are a Capital Vintners client.

    TBC......

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  28. Continued....

    If anything were to happen to the company they still own their wine. We have also been working very closely with Mr Temple and have found lots of customers storing wine on their own behalf have been prone to be misguided by new bogus companies popping up and fleecing them of their wine. We have also noted letters with our customers forged signatures trying to get the customer to sell their wine and buy carbon credits.

    With each business working closely together to build a safer environment for both parties everyone is happy.

    Finally I feel that although some customers might not have been kept in the picture with the change and whilst everybody has been written to on numerous occasions some may not have read the literature.

    Either or, it feels that we are again having to defend ourselves against scurrilous accusations that are posted on this blog and are hurting the company’s reputation.

    We will also post a letter written by James Temple the Locke King Vaults fine wine manager to confirm the above, and this is accessible to be sent out to all our customers. It was written to advise customers who had difficulty understanding our business relationship and perhaps even you.

    Regards
    MD

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  29. Please find below the letter written by James Temple, Locke-King Vaults Fine Wine Manager, which is available to all our customers.

    March 2013

    Dear Sir/Madam

    I am writing to confirm that EHD London No. 1 Bond Ltd is a Customs & Excise warehouse.

    We store all wines for Capital Vintners limited and their associated investment clients, within our fine wine storage division, Locke-King Vaults.

    Wines allocated, as per the instruction of Capital Vintners Ltd, to individual clients are located and registered into the individual clients' name and account. These wines will then become the property of the individual client and not the property of Capital Vintners Ltd.

    All movements of wines from the Capital Vintners Ltd "Sub-Accounts" are actioned on dual authority from both the individual client and Capital Vintners Ltd. No wines are able to be removed from storage without written instruction from both the "Sub-account" holder and the investment management company, Capital Vintners Ltd.

    On-line access to storage records are available to individual clients in respect of stock registered in their name.

    EHD London no.1 Bond is not party to any contracts of investment signed and agreed with Capital Vintners Ltd.

    Kind Regards,

    James Temple
    Locke-King Vaults Cellar Manager

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Although James Temple of EHD London no.1 Bond provides useful reassurance that wine cannot be moved without the client's instructions as well as that of Capital Vintners, the safest option is to open your own private account that gives the account holder full control over their wine.

      This is general advice and not specific to Capital Vintners.

      Delete
  30. I had a similar experience to the above regarding linking a sale of my wine to a larger deal which involved the purchase by me of one case first, however on collapse of the main deal and due to a misunderstanding on both sides my wine purchase price was refunded.
    All my wines purchased through CV were transferred from Octavian when CV set up a deal with Locke King of low storage costs and I am assured by Locke King that they are in my name.
    I also receive regular stock reports and have on line access, as far as the dual authority issue this provides some protection for clients who could easily be persuaded by some 'boiler room scam' to buy land or diamonds etc., and liquidate their wine stock to do so. I have had no trouble in recently selling my wine through CV and held at Locke King.

    I have had some trouble due to admin problems in getting rotation numbers in some of my wines at Locke King but this has and been promptly sorted once I contacted the right people at CV.
    I believe a lot what has been reported by people on this blog stems from the assumption that a Salesman presumably on commission, is the correct guy to speak to about stock in wine accounts and the selling of wines. CV salesmen in my experience (apart from one who was sacked by CV due to his 'over enthusiastic' attitude) are pushy but I have not found them aggressive or rude. Why do wine salesmen have to be any different to a car or washing machine salesman, or Estate Agent or House Developer. If you wanted to sell your house would you employ a 'wet letttuce'.

    Like any business arrangements you need to know the market and how things operate, when gong to sell a car you cannot expect a salesman to suggest you go somewhere else for a better deal,it is up to you to point that out.
    If you have an issue then it is often more pragmatic to discuss it with the MD rather than a self motivated salesperson or jump into blogs that appear to say what they like without fear of prosecution for liable/slander.

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  31. I am sick to death of nuisance calls from the muppets at capital vintners - never been a client and never will be

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  32. I have just been offered a case of Leoville Barton 2003 at £1100 £350 more than on wine searcher,the reason was sales tax,I just laughed.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. coltec. Many thanks. This is why wine-searcher offers such a valuable service. It is a great pity that more investors don't check before they buy!

      Delete
  33. Amended comment from anon:

    Anon has had a very annoying series of cold calls escalating from "junior" to more "senior" managers. All of these were somewhat clueless. Anon does wish they would feck off really, but has chosen to toy with them for fun. They ignore statements that Anon does not wish to purchase today and I thank the various other Anon's here for making the public aware of what is obviously (from the many cold calls I heard in the background of the call center – a high pressure sales operation. Thanks CV, but no thanks.

    Annoyed Anon

    ReplyDelete
  34. I too am being plagued by increasingly "senior" (and increasingly annoying) cold callers from CV who will not accept "no" for an answer. Even when you tell them never call you again, they do. It doesn't give a good impression!

    ReplyDelete