tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1567042805993048802.post2114923860912797941..comments2023-11-08T06:40:36.804+00:00Comments on investdrinks (blog): Wine – really a 'wasting asset'?Jim's Loirehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06696024920441263899noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1567042805993048802.post-12323625815433049642010-05-17T09:45:54.365+01:002010-05-17T09:45:54.365+01:00it seems that the decision is in the hands of the ...it seems that the decision is in the hands of the tax man at the time, as they is no real clarified rule that has been tested and set legal precedent... so you may or not be luckyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1567042805993048802.post-66225906565061205672010-05-16T22:03:08.036+01:002010-05-16T22:03:08.036+01:00Wine investment in the UK is in for a major shakeu...Wine investment in the UK is in for a major shakeup, maybe not in the next 12 months but there is lots happening in the background. FSA, Tax and other very significant regulation. Tories will regulate, they always do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1567042805993048802.post-22003297335719632542010-05-15T12:15:56.497+01:002010-05-15T12:15:56.497+01:00It's an interesting point but referring back t...It's an interesting point but referring back to my longer post I would argue that the few remaining bottles of 59 & 61 don't demonstrate 'expected' lifespan, but rather maximum. The vast majorty already drunk fall within the 'expected' window, with the remainder the anomoly.<br /><br />Having said 'I' would argue, actually I work in a large firm so am lucky enough to have access to tax lawyers and am simply regurgetating their opinion that paying CGT is highly unlikely under current guidelines.<br /><br />Of course, if the IR can find a way to clamp down on it they surely will, but for now I think we can all invest safely not expcting to give the con-dems 50% of our profits.<br /><br />Will hold judgement till you come back with more info on the taxed individual....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1567042805993048802.post-89795694739136591762010-05-15T11:51:30.072+01:002010-05-15T11:51:30.072+01:00Are the Revenue not likely to say that on the evid...Are the Revenue not likely to say that on the evidence of previously highly acclaimed vintages that 2009 will have a predictable life span in excess of of 50 years.<br /><br />Will check up on the taxed individual.Jim's Loirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06696024920441263899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1567042805993048802.post-3862634087243162022010-05-15T11:36:48.253+01:002010-05-15T11:36:48.253+01:00Sure, but many buyers of 09, for example, will be ...Sure, but many buyers of 09, for example, will be buying and selling quickly so the revenue would need to deem them a non wasting asset now - not in 50 years citing auction listings - which is virtually impossible under current guidelines.<br /><br />I'd be very interested to hear more about this taxed individual - pls keep us informed. Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1567042805993048802.post-67985573601362477452010-05-15T11:09:23.511+01:002010-05-15T11:09:23.511+01:00Anon Thanks for this. I do know of an instance whe...Anon Thanks for this. I do know of an instance where where a non dealer was taxed when they sold wine but I need to check whether they were liable for capital gains or it was income tax.<br /><br />I would have thought it would difficult to argue that top 1959 Bordeaux is undrinkable or that the 1961s will be from 1st January 2011. Doubtless the Revenue would cite the appearance of these wines in auction as an indication of their predictable life span. <br /><br />Given the current interest in wine investment I assume that the Revenue will be looking at this more closely.Jim's Loirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06696024920441263899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1567042805993048802.post-4533911364387834962010-05-15T10:32:11.697+01:002010-05-15T10:32:11.697+01:00Jim, I've looked into this and taken professio...Jim, I've looked into this and taken professional advice as it was important to me in my investing (even more so now that the coalition gvt are plannning to double CGT!).<br /><br />The advice I recieved was that, notwithstanding the vaugue-at-best guidelines issues by the tax man, it would be very difficult in the real world for HM customs & revenue to make a convincing case that my wine WASN'T a wasting asset.<br /><br />The 50 year rule is not to do with whether the wine will be 'undrinkable' in 50 years as you suggest, but more specifically its predictable life span. This begs the all important question in tax law (as yet untested as far as I am aware) as to whether in the case of wine this relates to its total possible life span, or to the point at which it may reasonably be expected to be consumed - its true lifespan. <br /><br />Of course, the latter is unquantifiable, but as only a handful of bottles - even from the greatest vintages - remain unopened past 50 years one can make a convincing case that ANY wine has a predictable life span of less than the threshold. <br /><br />And to further furrow the tax man's brow the life expectancy of a given wine is both subjective and variable. The predicted drinkable lifespan is just that - a prediction (which may turn out to be wrong however credible the 'expert') and a case stored in a humidity & temerature controlled cellar will have a much longer lifespan than one stored in poor conditions - "dear mr tax man, I didn't want to pay you CGT so I stored my wine on top of my central heating boiler....".<br /><br />Whilst this may be flippant it nonetheless points the way to an endless number of difficulties for the revenue in tying us down for CGT. Even the possibilty of wine being corked throws a generalised judgement of a given wine into question. It is these nuances of wine as a commodity that makes life so difficult for the revenue.<br /><br />I have bought my wine on the assumption and expectation that I will NOT be paying CGT, but not so naively as to think the revenue won't issue new, clearer rules the future that change this.<br /><br />I am told that o date no-one has been persued by the revenue for CGT on the profits from the sale of wine. Does anyone know if this is true? If so, speaks volumes...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1567042805993048802.post-78095441080916753762010-05-15T09:34:18.788+01:002010-05-15T09:34:18.788+01:00Justin. Thanks. This is a fairly common misapprenh...Justin. Thanks. This is a fairly common misapprenhension in the wine trade. I have added the official view from the UK tax authorities.Jim's Loirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06696024920441263899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1567042805993048802.post-68257280808417196172010-05-15T09:10:02.909+01:002010-05-15T09:10:02.909+01:00That's interesting. I'd always thought tha...That's interesting. I'd always thought that it was not subject to CGT provided you were not "trading" or "dealing" in wine.Justin Robertshttp://jerezwine.comnoreply@blogger.com