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Friday, 15 November 2013

Daily Express issues warning on wine investments



Good to see a national newspaper tackling the downside of wine investment:
'How to avoid a hangover after investing in fine wines
By: Maisha Frost

Published: Wed, November 13, 2013
RIPPED off or a poor punt, and what does he do next? There are no happy returns so far for James M who decided to dabble in fine wines after disappointing savings rates elsewhere.'



Maisha Frost told the story of James M, who was cold called by a company that promises that it will assist clients to 'accessing the benefits of fine wine investment' and persuaded to invest in wine. He bought five cases of wine. One of these wines was the 2009 Carruades de Lafite. People, who know and follow the wine market will have made money as Carruades shot up in price and will have got out as the bubble burst. 

James M was a wine investment novice and selling him a speculative 2009 Carruades as a first investment – not the first time this company has done this – was incautious, and, when you consider James was charged a 16% management fee, sharp practice. If you are going to charge a managment fee, then you should be offering a service and advising your clients when to sell. 

James now finds his portfolio is worth well just a little over half what he paid. In part this reflects the fact that the fine wine market has dropped considerably since the middle of 2011 – investors in wine have to be aware that the prices of fine wine do indeed fluctuate. However, James's losses have been made worse because as a novice he was sold speculative stock


***

See first anon's comment below:  



Screenshot from BBC of share markets during 2013:
anon (below): 'All markets are down...'!!

29 comments:

  1. all investments are speculative, so at least he got the wine, you guys behave like a bunch of fairies

    All markets are down... Jim you are actually a nuiscance sometimes, most of the time you are a benefit but not all the time

    you behave like a woman who is not getting any???

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Of course investments are speculative and James should anticipate that the value of his wine may go down as well as up.

      I contend that he was wrongly advised and sold stock that had a considerable degree of risk attached. On top of that he paid a management fee – for what?

      You say 'all markets are down' – presumably you are excluding the performance of stock markets over the past year..

      Delete
  2. Name & Registered Office:
    WOOLF SUNG LIMITED
    37 WARREN STREET
    LONDON
    UNITED KINGDOM
    W1T 6AD
    Company No. 08125281

    Name: SEBASTIAN JOSEPH WOOLF
    Nationality: BRITISH
    Latest Address: 37 WARREN STREET
    LONDON
    Postcode: W1T 6AD
    Country/State of Residence: UNITED KINGDOM

    ________________________________________

    DIRECTOR Appointed: 29/06/2012
    Occupation: COMPANY DIRECTOR
    Company Number: 08125281
    Company Name: WOOLF SUNG LIMITED
    Active

    DIRECTOR Appointed: 14/08/2012
    Occupation: COMPANY DIRECTOR
    Company Number: 08179010
    Company Name: FINE WINE EIS LIMITED
    Active

    ReplyDelete
  3. Name & Registered Office: Company No.: 08179010
    FINE WINE EIS LIMITED
    37 WARREN STREET
    LONDON
    UNITED KINGDOM
    W1T 6AD
    Date of Incorporation: 14/08/2012
    Country of Origin: United Kingdom
    Status: Active
    Company Type: Private Limited Company
    Nature Of Business (SIC):
    46342 - Wholesale of wine, beer, spirits and other alcoholic beverages
    Accounting Reference Date: 31/08
    Last Accounts Made Up To: (NO ACCOUNTS FILED)
    Next Accounts Due: 14/05/2014
    Last Return Made Up To: 14/08/2013
    Next Return Due: 11/09/2014
    Mortgage: Number of Charges: ( 0 outstanding / 0 satisfied / 0 part satisfied )
    Last members list: 14/08/2013

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anon. Thanks for these details. Jim

      Delete
  4. being clever Jim.... it all depends on what price you buy and what price you sell and the time period you are involved with

    I have traded NASDAQ and footsie stocks and they are highly volatile
    High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f99d51fa-363d-11e3-aaf1-00144feab7de.html#ixzz2kiflHl6A

    There were big losses for Anite, the telecoms equipment-testing company, after it said contract delays would reduce half-year revenues by 25 per cent and hit results for the full year. The stock fell 33 per cent to 74.9p.
    FTSE 100 - Losers

    Babcock International Group is down 1.3% despite reporting an increase in first half pretax profits of 32%. The company said its order book is stable and a good proportion of revenue for the next two years has already been contracted. However, the stock price has risen by about 10% over the last month. Investors had been pricing in an upgrade to earnings forecasts and have been disappointed this didn't happen, says Liberum Capital analyst Joe Brent. Moreover, the increase in the company's pension deficit is a negative. The deficit increased to GBP382 million from GBP261 million due to a 14% increase in the defined obligations, Brent explains.

    GlaxoSmithKline, down 1%, said investigational heart disease treatment darapladib had not met its primary targets in a Phase III study. The company said the drug had failed to reduce occurrence of any major adverse cardiovascular event like stroke or heart attack in the study.

    CSCO $ 21.40 2.60 10.81%
    BAC $ 14.795 0.16 1.06%
    FB $ 48.99 0.28 0.57%
    MSFT $ 38.03 0.13 0.33%
    F $ 17.09 0.01 0.06%
    SIRI $ 3.735 0.01 0.13%
    GE $ 26.99 0.16 0.59%
    MU $ 19.19 0.27 1.43%


    Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/markets/#ixzz2kiggurwD

    Its easy to play with numbers

    ReplyDelete
  5. Dear Jim

    what about previous years and the performance is no different to those of some fund managers and there extortionate fees that are FCA regulated just take a look at the charges Pension fund managers charge

    you are blind with hatred for wine as an investment... one of those that think it should be just drunk

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anon. We agree the practices you mention are equally unacceptable.

      Although I might prefer wine to be drunk, I recognise that wine investment exists. It is entirely reasonable to expect that investors are given proper and professional advice.

      Delete
  6. but they can still lose even with the best intent, wine is not guaranteed and investors should expect risk where there is profit there is risk unless you get a guaranteed fixed return all investors know that and the older they are the more they really know about it

    ReplyDelete
  7. Hi Jim,

    Have you heard of a relatively new company called “The French Wine Exchange?”

    http://thefrenchwineexchange.com/

    They aren’t an exchange and they’re not in France. Also, they cold call – and even have another company cold calling for them. See here,

    http://bespokeleads.com/case-study-the-french-wine-exchange/

    Interesting final paragraph written by the Managing Director of “The French Wine Exchange”. He says,

    “Just a quick email to say thank you for the great service that you provide me with, I am particularly impressed with the new top loader leads and the voice qualified leads. I have dealt with many marketing companies previously and I am now confident I will not have to look elsewhere. The assurance that these leads will not be issued on to other companies, and the fact that I can create my own marketing pitch for your guys to read off is exactly what I have been looking for. I will call you next week to confirm next campaign.”

    A pitch for your guys to read off? Nothing like investors being advised by knowledgeable professionals!

    ReplyDelete
  8. the other director

    Name: JOE WILLIAMS
    Nationality: BRITISH
    Latest Address: 25 WOODVILLE GARDENS
    BARKINGSIDE
    ESSEX
    Postcode: IG61LF
    Country/State of Residence: UNITED KINGDOM


    Date of Birth: 18/06/1986
    Company Appointments: Current: 1 / Resigned: 0 / Dissolved : 0
    To view company details, click on the appropriate company number.
    Click HERE to exclude Resigned and Dissolved appointments

    DIRECTOR Appointed: 04/04/2012
    Occupation: DIRECTOR
    Company Number: 08020687
    Company Name: THE FRENCH WINE EXCHANGE LIMITED
    Active

    Both come from affluent wine drinking parts of the UK I see......

    ReplyDelete
  9. Edited comment giving details of one of directors of The French Wine Exchange:

    Name: AMIR NOUR-ELDIN


    Nationality: BRITISH
    Latest Address: 25 HAROLD AVENUE
    BELVERDERE
    KENT
    Postcode: DA175NL
    Country/State of Residence: UNITED KINGDOM


    Date of Birth: 03/07/1985
    Company Appointments: Current: 1 / Resigned: 0 / Dissolved : 0
    To view company details, click on the appropriate company number.
    Click HERE to exclude Resigned and Dissolved appointments

    DIRECTOR Appointed: 04/04/2012
    Occupation: DIRECTOR
    Company Number: 08020687
    Company Name: THE FRENCH WINE EXCHANGE LIMITED
    Active

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Both the individuals you have listed are the directors. The comment is made by the managing director. I would suspect that the MD is probably some nameless financial backer. Bearing in mind that the below listed Joe Williams previously worked for Vin-X I would suspect that he is responsible for delivering sales. I doubt that Joe nor Amir have any responsibility for the financial accountability or decision making of the organisation.

      Delete
  10. Anon, why would you expect them to be French? Surely they are the 'French wine' exchange, not the French 'wine exchange', non?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. what a stupid comment

      Delete
  11. It seems like a fair comment to me

    ReplyDelete
  12. So are they an exchange?

    ReplyDelete
  13. This is Joe Williams of The French Wine Exchange.
    Thank you for your comments.
    I am amazed that even though we have marketing companies doing the introductory calls on our behalf, we are still considered to be cold calling?
    It seems like even though I am trying to do things correctly I am still being scrutinized...
    Furthermore, to suggest that the area I live in has anything to do with my companies’ overall capability in selling wine as investment is, to be blunt, quite pathetic. It is good to know that the only bad info people can find on my company is my personal home address!
    I have set up this company as a previous trader of Fine Wine.
    Throughout my time within the industry I had noticed that most companies charge additional mark-ups on their wines together with huge yearly fees for their service. We price match and beat by 2% if found cheaper elsewhere, we are in the process of opening up a very detailed platform that will assist investors in liquidating their assets without having to communicate with a broker, we have helped many existing wine investors to set up private bonded accounts (in order to eliminate any element of risk in losing their investment) and have also assisted many people in liquidating wines with complete transparency.
    We are certainly not one of these penny pinching wine companies and we pride ourselves in being completely transparent, even suggesting that clients do their own research on alternative prices etc. before they make the decision to go forward with their investment.
    It seems that even when things are done correctly, people still seem to be unsatisfied.
    We hold an open door policy in our offices, and all of our senior staff have either previous experience in trading fine wine, or relevant experience within the financial markets.
    If anyone would like to speak to me directly about any questions they may have about my company, please feel free to contact me on: joe@thefrenchwineexchange.com
    As an afterthought, for the Anon that wasn’t aware... you do not need to be neither French, nor based in France, to trade French wine.



    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So you'll beat a price from Albany, FRW, Wilkinsons, Farrs, BIndex, etc,etc by 2% will you?

      That's some impressive sourcing

      By the way, most wine companies don't have a yearly charge for their services.

      Seeing as you pride yourself on your transparency, perhaps you can tell us all what wines you are currently selling as investment standard and what you are charging for them?

      Delete
  14. To Joe Williams, re your comment on cold calling.

    So can we take it from your comments that the marketing company you use to make the calls to the investors, are actually responding to these investors enquires about your company, rather than phoning them unsolicited and telling them about your company?

    In other words, have these investors asked to be contacted?

    If they haven't, its a cold call - whether a marketing company does it or you do it.

    You call it an "introductory call". The rest of the civilised world calls it a "cold call".

    It's not complicated.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anon, that is correct.
    Again, if we do not make the first port of call we are dealing with ‘follow up calls’, we are not ‘cold calling’.
    The marketing company sends out generic mail shots/SMS campaigns, giving people the option of either responding for further info, or not responding and not receiving any further info. If they respond, they are then contacted via the marketing company introducing them to the idea of Fine Wine; if they request further information a time & date is arranged for The French Wine Exchange to contact them back. They also provide a code word so they know it is only us calling.
    I hope that is not too complicated?
    Anon, you quote ‘the rest of the civilised world’ – to reference your earlier point, does ‘the rest of the civilised world’ judge peoples’ capability to do a job successfully on the area in which they live? I believe you are confusing civility with snobbery. In this world we also spell ‘enquiries’ like this.
    I hope I have made myself clear, but as mentioned please feel free to contact me on joe@thefrenchwineexchange.com to discuss further.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Interesting approach Joe. This seems like an outsourced sales model to me. A great way of cutting down costs. The only issue is always one of accountability and ownership. By providing a script to this company is their any need for any sales staff of your own, or do you just pay another company to act as the french wine exchange and follow up on these leads?

      Delete
    2. I cant see that Joe is doing anything wrong here, why the uprising?

      Delete
  16. well said Joe

    ReplyDelete
  17. Hi Jim, instead of all this "you do this, no I don't", why don't you settle this and just contact the lead company (Bespoke Leads) and ask them if their voice qualified leads are emailed/mailshot-ed and only called if the investor responds, or if they are actually contacted by telephone (cold called). Then we would know if Joe is telling the truth and we can put this topic to bed.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anon. Yes I could do but so could you. At the moment the disappearance of Capital Bordeaux Investments Ltd and a petition to save a unique collection in France of some 7000 grape varieties are more pressing.

      Delete
  18. Ye, I could, but I haven't set myself up as the white knight of wine investment Jim, you have. That's why I thought you should do it. As part of your job, so to speak. But if cold calling is no longer an important issue to you, no problem. (You should make this sudden about-turn clear though, as people will get confused.)

    ReplyDelete
  19. Evidently, this is a competitor that is already on Jims’ 'Companies I Wouldn't Buy From' list letting off some steam.
    Your argument is invalid.
    For your information, I have not hidden from Jim at any point in time... I have sent him update emails since the very first day we started trading informing him of our business model and progression within the company.
    However, IF you do find something that genuinely isn’t correct, please do let me know.
    I suggest you take up a hobby, possibly skiing or something similar to let off this excess anger? I can assure you I will not be entertaining this petty debate any further.

    Have a great weekend.

    ReplyDelete